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	<title>Comments on: Dam truths, suspicious news polls and insensitive tourism</title>
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	<link>http://www.beijingnewspeak.com/2008/01/07/dam-truths-suspicious-news-polls-and-insensitive-tourism/</link>
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	<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 15:24:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Jeremiah</title>
		<link>http://www.beijingnewspeak.com/2008/01/07/dam-truths-suspicious-news-polls-and-insensitive-tourism/comment-page-1/#comment-20078</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremiah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 09:20:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I think one of the great ironies of the debate is the extent to which pre-1949 history is butchered---by both sides---in the service of contemporary political exigencies.  Was Tibet a wonderland of freedom and love prior to 1949? Of course not. Was it a hell-hole of lamas and slaves?   No. I'm not sure that history is the best argument here, why not focus on contemporary angles such as the right of self-determination?  

I've said it before, but if the PRC government had a sense of humor, which we know it does not, it would simply say: "You want to talk history and Tibet? Listen, we invaded it. Twice. It's ours. We'll talk 'free Tibet,' just as soon as the US gives San Diego back to the Mexicans. Until then, have another toke, put another bumpersticker on the VW Bus, and go buy more of our stuff from Wal-Mart."  

To Richardlee,

I think flatly refusing to read or care about ideas, opinions, or arguments simply because of their provenance, rather than deciding to accept or reject them based on the merits of the information presented, is really the grossest form of ignorance.  Such a statement shows a severe lack of critical thinking skills. I'm not sure what your definition of 'well-educated' might be, but surely you could not include the narrow-minded and small person who wrote your comment in that group.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think one of the great ironies of the debate is the extent to which pre-1949 history is butchered&#8212;by both sides&#8212;in the service of contemporary political exigencies.  Was Tibet a wonderland of freedom and love prior to 1949? Of course not. Was it a hell-hole of lamas and slaves?   No. I&#8217;m not sure that history is the best argument here, why not focus on contemporary angles such as the right of self-determination?  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve said it before, but if the PRC government had a sense of humor, which we know it does not, it would simply say: &#8220;You want to talk history and Tibet? Listen, we invaded it. Twice. It&#8217;s ours. We&#8217;ll talk &#8216;free Tibet,&#8217; just as soon as the US gives San Diego back to the Mexicans. Until then, have another toke, put another bumpersticker on the VW Bus, and go buy more of our stuff from Wal-Mart.&#8221;  </p>
<p>To Richardlee,</p>
<p>I think flatly refusing to read or care about ideas, opinions, or arguments simply because of their provenance, rather than deciding to accept or reject them based on the merits of the information presented, is really the grossest form of ignorance.  Such a statement shows a severe lack of critical thinking skills. I&#8217;m not sure what your definition of &#8216;well-educated&#8217; might be, but surely you could not include the narrow-minded and small person who wrote your comment in that group.</p>
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		<title>By: hi beijing 2008</title>
		<link>http://www.beijingnewspeak.com/2008/01/07/dam-truths-suspicious-news-polls-and-insensitive-tourism/comment-page-1/#comment-19930</link>
		<dc:creator>hi beijing 2008</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 06:15:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Dear Chris O'Brien,

I have visited your site and feel that the content about beijing would be of interest to the visitors to my site located at: "http://www.hibeijing2008.com/".

I have already placed a link to your site along with a description at http://www.hibeijing2008.com/. I would appreciate if you would place a link back to my site using the following description:
site name:hi beijing 2008
URL:http://www.hibeijing2008.com/

If you would like the description of your site modified or you have any other cross-promotion ideas let me know.

Best regards,

sora

E-mail:seosora@gmail.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Chris O&#8217;Brien,</p>
<p>I have visited your site and feel that the content about beijing would be of interest to the visitors to my site located at: &#8220;http://www.hibeijing2008.com/&#8221;.</p>
<p>I have already placed a link to your site along with a description at <a href="http://www.hibeijing2008.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.hibeijing2008.com/</a>. I would appreciate if you would place a link back to my site using the following description:<br />
site name:hi beijing 2008<br />
URL:http://www.hibeijing2008.com/</p>
<p>If you would like the description of your site modified or you have any other cross-promotion ideas let me know.</p>
<p>Best regards,</p>
<p>sora</p>
<p>E-mail:seosora@gmail.com</p>
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		<title>By: nanheyangrouchuan</title>
		<link>http://www.beijingnewspeak.com/2008/01/07/dam-truths-suspicious-news-polls-and-insensitive-tourism/comment-page-1/#comment-19924</link>
		<dc:creator>nanheyangrouchuan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 05:42:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beijingnewspeak.com/2008/01/07/dam-truths-suspicious-news-polls-and-insensitive-tourism/#comment-19924</guid>
		<description>"“You can not deny there was a servitude under Dalai Lama’s rule. Without the liberation, most of Tibetans would have still stayed in this servitude.”
This is the most common defense the Han Chinese have of their occupation of Tibet."

That is the most common defense of every country China liberates.  Big commie forgets that Tibetans accepted this way due to their religious beliefs...and all of China still lives under feudalism, including Beijing and Shanghai (hukou system) and now China plans to "liberate" northern Korea as well:

China planning to secure North Korea's nuclear arsenal: report by P. Parameswaran
23 minutes ago



WASHINGTON (AFP) - China has contingency plans to dispatch troops into North Korea and secure nuclear weapons in the event of instability in the hardline communist state, according to US experts who have talked to Chinese military researchers.

ADVERTISEMENT

Any intervention by Beijing would be done as far as possible after consultations with the United Nations, but unilateral action was not ruled out, the experts said in a report published on the websites of two US think tanks.

"If deemed necessary, PLA troops would be dispatched into North Korea," the report said, referring to the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA).

"China's strong preference is to receive formal authorization and coordinate closely with the UN in such an endeavor," it said.

"However, if the international community did not react in a timely manner as the internal order in North Korea deteriorated rapidly, China would seek to take the initiative in restoring stability."

The report was compiled by experts from the Center for Strategic and International Studies and the US Institute of Peace -- which published the report -- and Asia Foundation following their visit to China in June last year.

North Korea, which reportedly has up to 10 nuclear bombs, is currently involved in a de-nuclearization program in return for energy aid and diplomatic and security guarantees under a six-party mechanism involving also the United States, China, Russia, South Korea and Japan.

The program hit a snag recently after Washington accused Pyongyang of not meeting a December 31 deadline for a full declaration of its nuclear programs.

"According to PLA researchers, contingency plans are in place for the PLA to perform three possible missions" in North Korea -- humanitarian and peacekeeping missions and "environmental control" measures, the report said.

The measures are intended "to clean up nuclear contamination resulting from a strike on North Korean nuclear facilities" near the Sino-North Korean border and "to secure nuclear weapons and fissile materials."

The report -- entitled "Keeping An Eye On An Unruly Neighbor: Chinese views of economic reform and stability in North Korea" -- said that in the event of instability in North Korea, China's main priority would be to prevent a flood of refugees.

This would be done by assuring supplies of food and strengthening border controls, it said.

"PLA officers maintain that they would attempt to close the border, but admit a lack of confidence that they could do so successfully, since the border extends 866 miles (1,394 kimometers) and can be easily penetrated," the report said.

US experts took pains to emphasize that nuclear concern was only one part of the US-China dialogue on North Korea issues among the think tank community.

"The range of issues discussed is comprehensive," Korea expert John Park of the US Institute of Peace told AFP. "Discussion of hypothetical scenarios enables various parties to achieve a better understanding of nuanced views."

China's overall concerns about instability in North Korea, including on the nuclear issue, are not new as they share a long border, said China expert Bonnie Glaser of the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

"Just as the US is concerned about the possibility of instability in terms of nuclear weapons in Pakistan, the Chinese not surprisingly have concerns about control and security of nuclear facilities and nuclear weapons in the event of instability in North Korea," she said.

The US experts also discussed with Chinese specialists trends in North KoreaÂ’s economy and prospects for reform, current trends in Sino-North Korean economic relations and ChinaÂ’s policy toward North Korea in the wake of Pyongyang's October 2006 nuclear weapons test.

"I think the most important thing that has come out of it has really been increased understanding between experts on both sides about how we look at North Korea," Glaser said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;“You can not deny there was a servitude under Dalai Lama’s rule. Without the liberation, most of Tibetans would have still stayed in this servitude.”<br />
This is the most common defense the Han Chinese have of their occupation of Tibet.&#8221;</p>
<p>That is the most common defense of every country China liberates.  Big commie forgets that Tibetans accepted this way due to their religious beliefs&#8230;and all of China still lives under feudalism, including Beijing and Shanghai (hukou system) and now China plans to &#8220;liberate&#8221; northern Korea as well:</p>
<p>China planning to secure North Korea&#8217;s nuclear arsenal: report by P. Parameswaran<br />
23 minutes ago</p>
<p>WASHINGTON (AFP) - China has contingency plans to dispatch troops into North Korea and secure nuclear weapons in the event of instability in the hardline communist state, according to US experts who have talked to Chinese military researchers.</p>
<p>ADVERTISEMENT</p>
<p>Any intervention by Beijing would be done as far as possible after consultations with the United Nations, but unilateral action was not ruled out, the experts said in a report published on the websites of two US think tanks.</p>
<p>&#8220;If deemed necessary, PLA troops would be dispatched into North Korea,&#8221; the report said, referring to the Chinese People&#8217;s Liberation Army (PLA).</p>
<p>&#8220;China&#8217;s strong preference is to receive formal authorization and coordinate closely with the UN in such an endeavor,&#8221; it said.</p>
<p>&#8220;However, if the international community did not react in a timely manner as the internal order in North Korea deteriorated rapidly, China would seek to take the initiative in restoring stability.&#8221;</p>
<p>The report was compiled by experts from the Center for Strategic and International Studies and the US Institute of Peace &#8212; which published the report &#8212; and Asia Foundation following their visit to China in June last year.</p>
<p>North Korea, which reportedly has up to 10 nuclear bombs, is currently involved in a de-nuclearization program in return for energy aid and diplomatic and security guarantees under a six-party mechanism involving also the United States, China, Russia, South Korea and Japan.</p>
<p>The program hit a snag recently after Washington accused Pyongyang of not meeting a December 31 deadline for a full declaration of its nuclear programs.</p>
<p>&#8220;According to PLA researchers, contingency plans are in place for the PLA to perform three possible missions&#8221; in North Korea &#8212; humanitarian and peacekeeping missions and &#8220;environmental control&#8221; measures, the report said.</p>
<p>The measures are intended &#8220;to clean up nuclear contamination resulting from a strike on North Korean nuclear facilities&#8221; near the Sino-North Korean border and &#8220;to secure nuclear weapons and fissile materials.&#8221;</p>
<p>The report &#8212; entitled &#8220;Keeping An Eye On An Unruly Neighbor: Chinese views of economic reform and stability in North Korea&#8221; &#8212; said that in the event of instability in North Korea, China&#8217;s main priority would be to prevent a flood of refugees.</p>
<p>This would be done by assuring supplies of food and strengthening border controls, it said.</p>
<p>&#8220;PLA officers maintain that they would attempt to close the border, but admit a lack of confidence that they could do so successfully, since the border extends 866 miles (1,394 kimometers) and can be easily penetrated,&#8221; the report said.</p>
<p>US experts took pains to emphasize that nuclear concern was only one part of the US-China dialogue on North Korea issues among the think tank community.</p>
<p>&#8220;The range of issues discussed is comprehensive,&#8221; Korea expert John Park of the US Institute of Peace told AFP. &#8220;Discussion of hypothetical scenarios enables various parties to achieve a better understanding of nuanced views.&#8221;</p>
<p>China&#8217;s overall concerns about instability in North Korea, including on the nuclear issue, are not new as they share a long border, said China expert Bonnie Glaser of the Center for Strategic and International Studies.</p>
<p>&#8220;Just as the US is concerned about the possibility of instability in terms of nuclear weapons in Pakistan, the Chinese not surprisingly have concerns about control and security of nuclear facilities and nuclear weapons in the event of instability in North Korea,&#8221; she said.</p>
<p>The US experts also discussed with Chinese specialists trends in North KoreaÂ’s economy and prospects for reform, current trends in Sino-North Korean economic relations and ChinaÂ’s policy toward North Korea in the wake of Pyongyang&#8217;s October 2006 nuclear weapons test.</p>
<p>&#8220;I think the most important thing that has come out of it has really been increased understanding between experts on both sides about how we look at North Korea,&#8221; Glaser said.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.beijingnewspeak.com/2008/01/07/dam-truths-suspicious-news-polls-and-insensitive-tourism/comment-page-1/#comment-19792</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2008 06:35:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beijingnewspeak.com/2008/01/07/dam-truths-suspicious-news-polls-and-insensitive-tourism/#comment-19792</guid>
		<description>"You can not deny there was a servitude under Dalai Lama’s rule. Without the liberation, most of Tibetans would have still stayed in this servitude."
 This is the most common defense the Han Chinese have of their occupation of Tibet. They think that Tibet then would be the same now. Feihua, nonsense. Is the undemocratic and backward Japan of 1940 the same as it is now. Ditto for Korea (south) of 1950. How about Taiwan? Although China is growing at a faster rate than those societies now, all are way ahead of China in both democratic processes, civil society, and economic wealth. Most likely a free Tibet right now would find the Dalai Lama in a strictly religious role with a political structure that could very well be democratic or very well be like the 'stans' in central Asia (somewhat democratic) and an economy probably slightly, but not much, better than it is now.
"we have freedom to do our OWN business." I wish the Tibetans could say the same.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;You can not deny there was a servitude under Dalai Lama’s rule. Without the liberation, most of Tibetans would have still stayed in this servitude.&#8221;<br />
 This is the most common defense the Han Chinese have of their occupation of Tibet. They think that Tibet then would be the same now. Feihua, nonsense. Is the undemocratic and backward Japan of 1940 the same as it is now. Ditto for Korea (south) of 1950. How about Taiwan? Although China is growing at a faster rate than those societies now, all are way ahead of China in both democratic processes, civil society, and economic wealth. Most likely a free Tibet right now would find the Dalai Lama in a strictly religious role with a political structure that could very well be democratic or very well be like the &#8217;stans&#8217; in central Asia (somewhat democratic) and an economy probably slightly, but not much, better than it is now.<br />
&#8220;we have freedom to do our OWN business.&#8221; I wish the Tibetans could say the same.</p>
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		<title>By: Shanghaiist</title>
		<link>http://www.beijingnewspeak.com/2008/01/07/dam-truths-suspicious-news-polls-and-insensitive-tourism/comment-page-1/#comment-19729</link>
		<dc:creator>Shanghaiist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 23:25:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beijingnewspeak.com/2008/01/07/dam-truths-suspicious-news-polls-and-insensitive-tourism/#comment-19729</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Is it me or is it getting hot in here?...&lt;/strong&gt;

Well it's the fault of global warming elves, who have been wreaking havoc on China of late. First they...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Is it me or is it getting hot in here?&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>Well it&#8217;s the fault of global warming elves, who have been wreaking havoc on China of late. First they&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Samuel</title>
		<link>http://www.beijingnewspeak.com/2008/01/07/dam-truths-suspicious-news-polls-and-insensitive-tourism/comment-page-1/#comment-19670</link>
		<dc:creator>Samuel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 11:33:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beijingnewspeak.com/2008/01/07/dam-truths-suspicious-news-polls-and-insensitive-tourism/#comment-19670</guid>
		<description>Mr. Lee, 
Who's to say that Tibetan society wouldn't have evolved out of feudalism by itself? And didn't the communist government simply replace one autocratic government with another, I don't know just some thoughts... I understand that it is a very complicated situation, but it seems to me like there is something to hide if the Chinese government is going through all these efforts to basically twist the facts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Lee,<br />
Who&#8217;s to say that Tibetan society wouldn&#8217;t have evolved out of feudalism by itself? And didn&#8217;t the communist government simply replace one autocratic government with another, I don&#8217;t know just some thoughts&#8230; I understand that it is a very complicated situation, but it seems to me like there is something to hide if the Chinese government is going through all these efforts to basically twist the facts.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris O'Brien</title>
		<link>http://www.beijingnewspeak.com/2008/01/07/dam-truths-suspicious-news-polls-and-insensitive-tourism/comment-page-1/#comment-19645</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris O'Brien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 03:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beijingnewspeak.com/2008/01/07/dam-truths-suspicious-news-polls-and-insensitive-tourism/#comment-19645</guid>
		<description>Well aware of Phayul's agenda - was just using it as a vessel for two short SCMP quotes as I can't access the original article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well aware of Phayul&#8217;s agenda - was just using it as a vessel for two short SCMP quotes as I can&#8217;t access the original article.</p>
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		<title>By: FlewOverBird'sNest</title>
		<link>http://www.beijingnewspeak.com/2008/01/07/dam-truths-suspicious-news-polls-and-insensitive-tourism/comment-page-1/#comment-19644</link>
		<dc:creator>FlewOverBird'sNest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 03:38:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beijingnewspeak.com/2008/01/07/dam-truths-suspicious-news-polls-and-insensitive-tourism/#comment-19644</guid>
		<description>@Richardlee
Your argument reminds me what Americans think may justify their invasion to Iraq--to save them out of dictatorship. 
Seems all imperialism around our little planet , east or west, capitalist or communist, are not very different, and that's eactly why I believe--Proletariat of the World, Unite!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Richardlee<br />
Your argument reminds me what Americans think may justify their invasion to Iraq&#8211;to save them out of dictatorship.<br />
Seems all imperialism around our little planet , east or west, capitalist or communist, are not very different, and that&#8217;s eactly why I believe&#8211;Proletariat of the World, Unite!</p>
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		<title>By: wk</title>
		<link>http://www.beijingnewspeak.com/2008/01/07/dam-truths-suspicious-news-polls-and-insensitive-tourism/comment-page-1/#comment-19637</link>
		<dc:creator>wk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 23:08:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beijingnewspeak.com/2008/01/07/dam-truths-suspicious-news-polls-and-insensitive-tourism/#comment-19637</guid>
		<description>you mentioned phayul.com and you want fair reporting on Tibet, what are you smoking?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you mentioned phayul.com and you want fair reporting on Tibet, what are you smoking?</p>
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		<title>By: Richardlee</title>
		<link>http://www.beijingnewspeak.com/2008/01/07/dam-truths-suspicious-news-polls-and-insensitive-tourism/comment-page-1/#comment-19627</link>
		<dc:creator>Richardlee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 21:36:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.beijingnewspeak.com/2008/01/07/dam-truths-suspicious-news-polls-and-insensitive-tourism/#comment-19627</guid>
		<description>I am Chinese. I agree some reporters have little knowledge about Tibet.But they did it out of good intention. You can not deny there was a servitude under Dalai Lama's rule. Without the liberation, most of Tibetans would have still stayed in this servitude. Don't say i am brainwashed. You are. For Tibetans inside Tibet, people usually would forget those hard time after so many years past and would like to focus on their current life. 
   And if you really think highly of democracy, please remember two " don't care"s. The first, we don't care about what official propaganda media say. So only you and small bunch of chinese would pay attention to XInhua's shits. YOu should notice that nobody would pay money to subscribe,let's say, People's daily etc.
  Secondly, we don't care about what western media says about China, especially among well-educated Chinese. Let time tell us everything. We should not pay price for your ignorance. You have freedom to yell. we have freedom to do our OWN business.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am Chinese. I agree some reporters have little knowledge about Tibet.But they did it out of good intention. You can not deny there was a servitude under Dalai Lama&#8217;s rule. Without the liberation, most of Tibetans would have still stayed in this servitude. Don&#8217;t say i am brainwashed. You are. For Tibetans inside Tibet, people usually would forget those hard time after so many years past and would like to focus on their current life.<br />
   And if you really think highly of democracy, please remember two &#8221; don&#8217;t care&#8221;s. The first, we don&#8217;t care about what official propaganda media say. So only you and small bunch of chinese would pay attention to XInhua&#8217;s shits. YOu should notice that nobody would pay money to subscribe,let&#8217;s say, People&#8217;s daily etc.<br />
  Secondly, we don&#8217;t care about what western media says about China, especially among well-educated Chinese. Let time tell us everything. We should not pay price for your ignorance. You have freedom to yell. we have freedom to do our OWN business.</p>
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